Interview with Calvin Bruneau, Papaschase band councillor, about Fort Edmonton cemetery in Rossdale

[Brief excerpt of an interview, with Calvin Bruneau, a band councillor with the Papaschase Cree, is speaking about efforts in 2003 to end the desecration of the old Fort Edmonton cemetery in Rossdale. Early part of tape was incomprehensible due to traffic noise.

CB: ...We are telling them, "well, hello," you know, that's because they were removed. See it was a deal between the Mennonite Church and the City of Edmonton at the time. They basically had them dug up and removed and placed there. And, I believe that was in, oh, I can't remember the date off hand. I think that was early 1900.


Now some historians say that the people who were buried here were Fort employees and their families, not necessarily Papaschase's people. What would you say in response to that?


That's not true because we have real records that go back to the Church records, you know, those were pretty much, at the time, very accurate records, and a lot of names in there are Gladue and there are some names, there's Bruneau and those are names that are synonomous with Papachase's Band members. You know, L'Hirondelle, there's people in there like that, you know, those are all Papachase names. There's even other bands too that would have people in here as well.


Enoch Cree band's ancestors?


Well, yes there was actually a chief in here who may have been Chief Lapatac. I believe that was who was buried down here. Because it says in one of the records - I believe it is the Hudson's Bay records - that Chief Lapatac's body was brought back to the Fort for burial. They didn't bury him out there to bury him down here. So, there are a lot of records out there. I mean there are Fort employees [buried there], and that's a given, but there are also a lot of aboriginal people.


And also many Fort employees were aboriginal or Metis...


Well exactly, you're right. We had a lot of them who were not only traders, but also scouts and stuff like that. But we saw evidence at the University of Alberta of those people that were inside of the fence here that were dug up back in the '60's.


They showed us their grave goods. There was a medicine bundle in there and, you know, that's synonymous with a native person, not a white person. That would have been a Medicine Man holding that kind of thing. There was stuff like beads that they had dug up. There was clothing. You know they had like hide, that kind of stuff in there - fur. You know, they were buried with their goods. The belief was that their goods would go with them, right? So... and there was a bone as well, which is used in ceremonies and dances and stuff like that, and that was found in there as well. So, you know, it's pretty straightforward, you know, that it's not just the Caucasian history. Aboriginals were buried in here as well.


When did you start getting involved in this effort to restore public dignity to the cemetery under the road?


We started getting involved in early 2000. As early as February we were approached, actually, by Dwayne Goodstriker.


Is he still in town and still involved?


Yep, he is still around and still involved.
He approached us to get involved because, I guess the tradition is you go to the nearest band that has jurisdiction to deal with the issue, and instead of going to Enoch, he realized that we were merging and forming and so the protocol was to come to us. He found us and showed us those pictures about the skeletons and stuff like that. There was a rival group at the time which we were looking at joining, but then, after that they split because we were looking at forming and joining up with them. Then what happened was there was [? unclear] happening, I think that was in April. Down, actually just over on the other side of the Legislature grounds, at the burning or whatever that is.


So, you know, we made our representation there but Chief Lameman was in Calgary at the time, living there, and so I was one of the main band counsellors who was involved, so I started looking into this issue and representing us. Then we started to come down a lot more and have ceremonies.


How many ceremonies have you had here?

Oh boy! Well the initial one we had was on National Aboriginal Day that summer. [June 26]


2000 or 2001?

2000, and that was over where the crosses are over there. We placed one big one and the spear there and then later...


Do you remember the elders who were here that day?


Nellie Carson was here. Nellie Carson and, oh what was her name - I can't remember. Nellie was here, I remember her. And anyway, we had the ceremony there and then we had another one later in the fall, but with actual descendants, because we were locating some of the descendants, plus certain representatives from different communities like from Métis nation, you know we had and we had ourselves there.


And what did you do that time?

Well what we did, was we... you know the smaller crosses? We put up more of those and different individuals and representatives, on behalf of their ancestors or on behalf of the different groups placed a cross there at the marsh as a way of marking this area as a burial ground.


How did the City and Epcor respond to that when it first happened? Did you tell them in advance you were going to do that?


Yep, we had Tim Bosson, I believe its Mary Malloy was there from Epcor at the first one, National Aboriginal Day. We didn't have anybody from the City show up.


But they have left the crosses there. Everybody has left them there. Has there ever been any vandalism or anything like that?


Yep, yep!


Well, tell me about that.


When we put up the first big cross, that was broken in half and Dwayne's spear that he put in the ground was broken as well. That was before the hearing started later that year. Then, from what I hear, recently some of the smaller ones have been vandalized. Also, the one that we placed down here has been vandalized and I want to check it out.


Lets go do that. So was that one?


Yah, actually you could see it right there and you can see the post and it's just snapped off. It was a bigger one, the cross part, so because it stood this high, you can tell someone has obviously gone in there and broken it right off.


What would you like to see done in this area, as an individual? I know that everybody has a different point of view. What about you?


This over here, I'd like to see this taken out because now it gives a larger area to recognize the burial ground. But, also, I'd like to see this plant shut down eventually and then find out the extent. We agree with Sheila Minny's [check spelling] report more than these other reports.


That it was a bigger cemetery?


Yes. We feel it was a bigger cemetery because we found at least 100 names from the stuff I have, but there are a lot of individuals who weren't named. I know there are at least 100. When they took out the bodies in this area here, those 24 people out of here and took them to another Edmonton cemetery that was just this area. That was just the Mennonite believers taken out of here. We are not talking about the aboriginal. The Mennonite Church didn't come here until later in the century.


Fort Edmonton had moved over to the current site of the Legislature grounds very early in the 19th century. The Mennonites didn't arrive until more than 75 years later.

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Yeah, but what I am saying is that there were employees who were buried here before then. There were aboriginal people buried here before then. So they're only dealing with a certain part of history. They are not looking at the Fort Employees and the aboriginal people that were buried here; the Métis; there were Blackfoot buried here; there were Sarcee; there were Assiniboine; there were Cree. There are not only two different aboriginals; there were Stony people, so there are people from different nations buried here.


How did you find the list of people buried at the cemetery? I have found one through the Archives: I wanted to know whether Rowand's wife, Lizette, was buried here and she was. She was Cree. How did you form your list? Who did that research?


Well, Philip [Coutu] did a lot of that. He went through the Oblate's archives and went through the Hudson's Bay archives. You have to find out what other sources that he used. Those are the main ones.


So he was the one who put sort of a list together of some of the families.

Yes.


Do you know of any other Papaschase cemeteries? Somebody told me once that there was a cemetery way over on the south side of the river up above the Whitemud there. Do you know anything about that cemetery?


I have been looking into that for a while now. Mainly this is the one we have been dealing with. I believe that by dealing with this one, we are able to set a precedent for others. I talked with Alberta Community Development and there were burial grounds on the south side too. I believe there are a few back there. I actually have [Papaschase reserve] maps that show locations of those burial grounds.


I would like to see that. Say that your dream comes true and this is cleared at some point in the future. What would you like to see done after that? Do you want a commemoration, anything else, like stones or what exactly?


Well that's why we have been meeting with the City. Last year we met with representatives of the City like David Schneider, Project Manager. There were different consultation meetings with descendants and representatives and that is what we came up with. We want a commemoration, and right at this site we want something here to honor and respect the dead, have it designated as a historical burial ground.


But, first things first, this road has got to be taken out and what we are looking at here is having a turning lane over in that corner over there, so in that way people don't come to a dead stop there and then have to turn right. Maybe there will be some turning lane on the other side for people to come on to this road. It is just that this is the main road and we would like to see it go.


What pushes you forward in this, as a person, just respect for the dead or what is it? What drives you forward? It is a lot of work.


Well, for one thing, I know the Lord the Creator has placed me in these situations to help it along - to do whatever I can to, not only make things happen, but to bring things to completion as well. To help push the powers that be, I guess, into the right direction. They have not been willing to do that on their own. We have had to really, really push. I knew, after the hearings, that our next fight was going to be at City Hall. That is where we would have to take things and we have, because Mayor Smith and a few others were very dead set against this happening. I remember him telling us about a time he went there and Philip got upset with him that one time because he wasn't willing to see anything. He didn't believe there was a graveyard down here. So Philip finally got upset and he threw a bunch of bones right in front of him. He said, "Does this convince you?" There were bones of bodies and he was trying to cover them up. I guess it was a comical scene, but that's the type of people we have been dealing with.


What do you think that the people of Edmonton know about the Papachase story, or do you think they know much at all? Do you think, when you speak to people about it, do many people know very much?


Some do know. When I do mention the thing on the south side. They will say, 'Oh, yeah." I talk mainly to the native people and they all mention Papaschase. "Oh, yeah, we know about you guys." There is the odd one who doesn't know too much, but for the most part there are a lot who are getting more educated and knowing more about it. We have been getting out there more in the public eye. We did that deliberately by getting in the media. We wanted to say to not only Edmonton, but the whole community around, that this is something that was wrongly done to our ancestors and it has to be taken care of. That is actually what we are looking at. I guess that goes back to the question of what drives me. It is justice. There is injustice with our claim on the south side but there is injustice here as well. At the expense of people, and this being a sacred site, they don't talk to the native people. They don't go to the Métis and say, "You know, we have found bodies." There is basically a lack of respect.


What about the bodies that were found long ago, in the '60's. What happened to those bodies?


They are sitting up at the University. We have talked to the University people who are holding them, and they know where it is headed. There was a Repatriation Ceremony up in Rocky Mountain House and they were actually kind of involved in that. They know about that and we basically told them that the same thing is going to happen here, you guys had better be ready for getting things.


Have you ever talked to Lewis Cardinal or anybody at the University about getting something done before? What would you like to see done? What do you think would be the best thing to do?


Well, obviously, we would like to see, well first things first. This road has got to be closed because we have to have a huge enough area, because there are at least 25 different individuals that we are looking at here. There are remains as well, not only old skeletons. You need an area that is big enough for repatriation because you are not going to putting them all in one. It would be disgraceful to have them all in one big pit or something like that. That's not right. As individuals, they would be put back as individuals. You would have a big ceremony. I am talking to David Schneider saying that what we have to do is close the road first that is probably this summer. There is probably going to By-law changes and City Hall is pretty slow about things like that. Once those things are done and this is designated as an historic cemetery on a historic list or something like that.


And then you would do the repatriation?


Yep. Those things have got to be put in place before. It has to be designated as a burial ground. That is what I have been telling them. We have sent them letters. We did that at the October 1st hearing, saying that because it is within the City of Edmonton boundaries, City Counsel has the legal and moral responsibility to look after this burial ground. So the Mayor has been told that they have to look after this burial ground. That means looking at the Cemeteries Act and designating it as a cemetery.


Do you know where the human remains are stored at the University?


I have their cards. I know one gentleman's name who is actually aboriginal. His name is Tom Hunter. I don't have my cards here. I remember the lady's name was Janine. I would have to get that information to you. I think it might be Archeology. They do have them stored there and they know what is happening. What they told us is that there has to be consensus built. We have been trying to do that. We have been working with the city pushing to try to get this road closed.


How many crosses? Let's look at them again. We have the large one where you know the body was.


There is another one I wanted to point out to you. Lets walk along here. Actually, when we come down here there are different events like Aboriginal Day events.


Will there be another one this year?


I am not too sure about that. We try to keep things going and next Aboriginal Day we want to have the bodies repatriated. That is next year. This year if we can get this done by Aboriginal Day and do something then that would be great.


We looked at rerouting this road here and everything.


So you see that little white thing sticking out with the red on it. That is where another cross would be.


Was that one broken or was it just a marker? It is just under the snow. Is it that you knew that where it was from the archeological report?


Well, that was put up by Philip and his wife as that still falls within the area because we so believe it's east of the bridge in this area and further on to the switch yard there.


Now there are some people in Rossdale wanting to preserve the old power plant because it is historic architecture from Edmonton's point of view. How do you feel about that? What would you like to see done with it?


That's fine, I mean I know the alternative use. I agree with that because there might be a museum in there and maybe even a shopping centre. You know, maybe a concert hall. Just turning it into something that is going to fit in not only with the plans of Rossdale, but to be more recreational - like a tourist designation. I see nothing wrong with that because there is also a possibility, and we have discussed that, of having an interpretive centre.


To say who worked here in the distant past?


Yes, like the history can be brought forward to the people. They can know who was buried down here and they can know what kinds of people were down here. It is kind of basically telling the story of the beginning of Edmonton.


This is also where Alberta became a Province, right here, right?

Yes, that would be more on the other side of the switchyard. Over there was more in the racetrack area. That is in this site and that is what we told the City of Edmonton. Especially Rossdale, they weren't too pleased about having the commemoration of the Province's anniversary up on Churchill Square. They thought it should have been down here where the actual beginnings of it were.


Okay, let's go back and take a look and we will just check. Okay, so there is one there, two here, one there and there is a few over there and I think there is approximately about 20 including the big cross there.


So, what kind of ceremony? Did the elders light sweetgrass and things like that?

Yes there were some that did and prayed. There was basically the ceremonial traditions.


Do you want to say anything about the ancestors of yours who worked here? Various members of Papaschase Band worked at Fort Edmonton and I haven't asked you before about what you think the Papaschase people and the band members, all the time they were here, what did they contribute to the growth of Edmonton? Do you want to put anything on the record about honoring them?


I could start on my Dad's side. From what I know about our family's history is that Jean Baptiste Bruneau and some of them were involved as free traders and they worked for themselves but they traded with the Fort. They went out and did a lot of hunting and stuff like that. For one, Lizette Bruneau married Rowland. She is another ancestor who is buried down here, along with Jean Baptiste Bruneau. They were very much involved in the fur trade and that helped to keep things going out here. Keep the trade going and keep business going. Eventually it turned into a settlement so, I guess, that is their contribution.


You were also, through your family, related to Gabriel Dumont, right through your other side. I saw that in the genealogical chart.

Yes, there were different ancestors that who were the hunters and they did like to hunt. I have some relatives who still do that today.


Where did your family go after the reserve was split up? Where did they all end up? In the north, like Lac La Biche?


A lot of them scattered all over. On my dad's side some of them went onto Bands - you can find some ancestors today on Enoch and Hobbema, Alexander, but there are also those who were considered Métis and they took the scrip. That is what happened to our ancestors. I have a great-grandfather who had land actually at St. Paul des Métis. Of course what happened is that they had settlers moving in on them and lost their land so they moved further East into the Fishing Lake, Cold Lake area and that is where they settled down for a few generations and that is were my grandfather and my father grew up and that is where eventually where I was born.


We ended up back in Edmonton. And on my Mom's side the Papaschese, much of a similar pattern. The Papaschase was at St. Paul des Métis for a bit.


Tell me again where he is buried?

He is buried at Eleanor Lake. Then from there, because there were different Métis settlements that were set up, it was basically the churches who helped to keep them going. It was for people who were disinfranchised, or considered Métis, and that is where they were staying. One of them was Eleanor Lake. We say the remains of where the Church was, where there used to be a store.


Would you like to see a marker in Edmonton? The only thing I can find that was named after Papaschase is the industrial park on the south side. Would you like to see something named after the Band or after his family?


There is the industrial area and there is actually a Papaschase room up in the Faculty Club at the University of Alberta. But, it would be nice to have something named, but that is something we would have to discuss and decide on. Something like that maybe a memorial put up, maybe in the south side. It would be good if there could be something if the Band could become stronger and actually put up something themselves. Like putting up a community or business that stays Papaschase.


Does it bother you, this lack of recognition?

No. I haven't really thought of something like that. We are looking at down here. This I feel is a precedent. This is something that has to be done. It has to be looked after and completed, because we know it is happening in Alberta. It is also taking a stand too. We have to show companies that they can't just go on and do whatever they want and get away with stuff like this because it is too important. The question we always pose to them is, "Would you like us to dig up your ancestors' burial ground? Would you like to build on their burial ground?"


What do they say?

They can't say nothing. The answer is pretty obvious. That gets them thinking. It has been pretty slow though.


Let's count the number there. What would you say?

One, two... 25, I count, including the big cross. But there was actually, when we had the ceremony with the elders we had four more, so you can see the cross here, you can see the spear beside it. They were broken. I don't know, I just think it is disgraceful. I guess it is what hurts you more, you could understand it if it was just people who didn't know any better or are rude or even racist, or whatever, because they know it is an aboriginal burial ground. They know because we have been down here. That is understandable, but what I wouldn't understand is that if it was our own people. It was people doing it out of jealousy or something like that. I wouldn't be surprised, they don't agree or they get mad at you and come down here.


[It was] Dwayne [Goodstriker] and myself who were spearheading this on. Another was Philip's sister, Liliane.


Is Philip's sister Liliane?


That is her married name, and she is Métis, but they are French so she is basically our French representative. You had your French people down here and there are Irish.


Those stories will be very interesting to read.


(Interview, Jan. 22, 2004)

I'm glad the history of the Papaschase band is being brought out. It will show the people of Edmonton, and also the aboriginal people of Alberta, what happened here to our ancestors, and the injustices that took place.


This is our motivation today. We want to bring the truth out, and by revealing injustices, take the necessary steps to correct the situation. By holding Aboriginal Day at the Rossdale cemetery, by repatriating the bodies to the cemetery, we will commemorate our history out of honour and respect for our ancestors.


By bringing out the history of the Papaschase we can reveal what happened to the band. It was the government that took our land and rights away. We are trying to rectify that situation now, with the public, and through the courts.