Interview with Fran Gosche, Papaschase and Metis history in Edmonton

Fran Gosche was born June 4, 1934, the daughter of Stanley J. Donald and Edith R. Ward. Both parents were direct descendants of early Metis families who lived at Fort Edmonton, and many other major fur trading posts of the North West, including York Factory, Red River, Fort Pelly, Carlton House, Fort Pitt, then Edmonton. She is a direct descendant on her father's side of James Curtis Bird, chief factor at Fort Edmonton from 1799 - 1816 and his wife Elizabeth Montour.


Fran Gosche's parents married April 11, 1928. She was born in her grandmother's house on her farm on the shore of Hastings Lake, southeast of Sherwood Park, but her family moved to Edmonton in 1939. She started school at Alex Taylor, then moved to the southside attending Mount Carmel School, growing up in Bonnie Doon, Parkallen and Ritchie. Fran and her husband Ted raised six children, five sons and one daughter. Fran worked for 18 years as a unit clerk at the University of Alberta Hospital before her retirement when the government closed the obstetrics unit.


She has been researching family genealogy off and on for the last twenty years, with the help of her sister-in-law Darlene Donald, and more recently distant cousins Leu Last and Janis Brass. She has an extensive collection of government documents that help tell the story.


Elizabeth Bras and all other family have Metisscrip certificates filed in Edmonton and St. Albert with genealogical data confirmed.


Extended family members include: John Ward, writer; Janis Bird, writer; William Donald, builder, carpenter; George Donald, blacksmith, builder, carpenter.


Genealogy of Family : We spent an hour going over genealogical reports in Fran's extensive collection, involving her own family history on both sides. She gives information on some individuals which I note in brackets on the attached chart. The following local Metis/Cree/Fort Edmonton families are mentioned in this chart: the Donalds, Birds, Daigneaults (later known as Daniels); Charlands, Wards,


Other Background: On the Treaty 6 band lists, under the Papaschase band, in 1879, Mrs. Donald, i.e. Elizabeth Brass Donald, is listed as #82. George Donald is listed as #49. Others are listed in the ledger, too. (Isaac Daigneault; Daniel Daigneault; Mrs. Gladue, etc. Fran also has copies of her grandparents and great-grandparents Elizabeth's Metisscrip certificate, filed in Edmonton, with genealogical data confirmed.


There are two other lists of this period: the St. Albert Orphans and the Edmonton Stragglers. Some people end up on the latter list, or on Papaschase list.


In the untaped portion of the interview she says of her earliest family members:


"I admire them so much. Some of them were trappers. They were all connected with the Hudson's Bay Company at some point. This is the grandparents on both sides. I have the information that goes back beyond all four of my grandparents to when they first arrived in Canada."


She also described the sadness and anger she felt sometimes in her early years of research, as she slowly discovered the story of how her family lost land in Edmonton, land that subsequently became very valuable.


"I had to take quite awhile off from doing this research, until I got my thoughts straightened out...


"The one who inspired me through this from the start was my grandma, Madeleine Ward. She died in 1957. She had a farm on Hastings Lake. I have a picture of her and her farm. When I was a kid I was always questioning her. My Dad couldn't believe the way I was asking questions all the time. My grandma would tell me about how things were when she was a child. Her father died when she was young. Her mother had to take her to the nuns in St. Albert. The nuns allowed a family from Lac La Biche to take her, a Frenchman with a Cree wife. They didn't treat her as a family member. She said her life was really awful. Her sister, Emarence, lived in St. Albert. The nuns introduced [Madeleine] to a prospective husband. She met him two or three times . He said he wanted to marry her. She said yes. She said thought couldn't be worse than the situation she was in. Her eyes used to sparkle when she told me. It turned out she was lucky because he was such a good man. His name was Jonas Ward. That was my grandpa."


[The taped interview begins with questions after Fran Goshen shows a photograph of a Metiswoman in early Edmonton. She begins:]

______________________________________________________________________________


That's Elizabeth Brass Donald, my great grandmother. The reason I think of her is that I know a little bit about her, because she lived in the river valley.


Why did they leave their land in the river valley?

The Hudson's Bay Company sold its holdings to the Government of Canada, and between them and the city of Edmonton, they took over that property or moved them or something. So the Hudson's Bay property owners [the families that had obtained land after working for the HBC at Fort Edmonton] didn't mean anything. And they ran them out of there, along with any natives who were living in there.


Do you remember your parents or grandparents talking about this ?

They just knew they moved out, with no details given.


[She shows two pictures: one shows a Metiswoman in a black dress standing on a board sidewalk in front of large house. The second picture shows a picture of the same house from a book. The book notes that the large house belongs to Frank Oliver.]


That's my great-grandma. I think she's trying to tell me something.


What?

"Maybe that that person is responsible for the hardship they went through. I don't see any other reason for her to go and pose in front of that house."


[Says she received the Elizabeth Brass Donald photograph from a second-cousin in Vancouver, Len Last, who is a great-grandson of Henry Donald. He has collected a great deal of information about the family. Pointing to picture of Oliver house: "This is out of a book my husband and I have." She has another picture of Elizabeth Brass Donald later in her life, standing with a horse on the prairie, with many of her children; as well as some of the Bird children.]





What do you want to people in Edmonton to know about Elizabeth Brass Donald, and women like her?

I think all of the women who lived in and around that fort were a major part of the history of this area. Without them I don't think the men would have survived. It's a shame that there isn't anything -- anything at all -- in this city, saying they even lived here. They are completely ignored.


What would you like to see done about that?

I would like something written in the history book about these people. I would like any pictures, any information anybody has, to be displayed somewhere. I think there should be a monument down in that river valley dedicated to all those people, who worked so hard... I know some of their relatives from there, as well as white people who lived in the fort, their family members are buried in that cemetery where the power plant is. Maybe they could have a little park there, especially for this.


Do you have any family members there in the cemetery?

I think there might be some Bird family in there, maybe William Bird's children. I haven't seen a list of the names that are in the cemetery. I've seen in some of my records that children died at that time, and they lived there, so I imagine they are buried there. I'm going to try and find more information. I did get in touch with the Metisassociation and I wanted a list of those names but I haven't received it yet.


Can you tell me some of the things those women, your great-grandmothers, did for the fur traders?

I think they kept them in footwear and clothing. I know that my grandmothers were all seamstresses. They could make dresses or men's suits or moccasins. They could knit. They made the bed linens, they made featherbeds to keep them warm, they prepared the food. I don't think there's any end to what they did so that people could survive. They delivered babies. They helped look after sick people. They probably looked after the farm animals and everything else around the home as well.


Why haven't they had the attention you believe they deserve?

I think it's because they weren't white. I think because they were native and Métis. Canada just seems to be trying to bury them, and trying to forget about them, even today.


Can you tell me more about Julie Daigneault? She seems very important to you too.

Julie is my great-grandmother. She's named after her mother. I have a picture of her. From the research that I've done, I found out she was in her early teens when she first married. Her first husband died and the second husband was my great-grandfather Louis Charland. They had two daughters, Emerance and one of which is my maternal grandmother, Madeleine Ward. She is the only grandparent I knew. My great grandfather died and Julie married for the third and last time to Louis Paquette. Together they had four more daughters. She amazes me. She was a wonderful, hard-working woman. She was so tiny and had to be so strong. All of my grandmothers were small in stature. Most of my ancestors lived in the Edmonton river valley and St Albert and Hastings Lake. A lot of them still do. Others are living throughout Alberta and in other western provinces


Is there a lot of awareness in your family about the way your family lost river valley land?

No. They just know it is gone, and I don't think any of my generation has really tried to find out what happened. That's one of the reasons that I kept digging and trying to figure out what happened to it. That's when I found the Papaschase Indian band that had lived down there. It was through them that I started finding out what happened in that river valley. I just stuck with the band because I thought I would learn something about my family and what happened to their property, and that's what happened. They were all clumped together [treaty and Métis], and they were all run out of there at the same time. I am still doing research on that though.***


Where did the Donalds end up?

Eventually the children of Elizabeth and George Donald all settled out around the hamlet of Deville Hastings Lake which is just a ways beyond Sherwood Park. It's a beautiful lake. They all had property around there.


Did they use their [Métis] scrip to buy that land?

I have no idea. I just know that my grandfather, who was William Donald, was very poor. The other brothers seem to have done a bit better, but I know he was very, very poor all his life. And that's why I wondered what happened to the property and why he was poor.


Have you identified the land that the family lost in Edmonton?

Yes, I have. I've seen it on a map, an 1882 survey map. Lot 21. I think the measurements are on the map. [This map shows the Donald land listed under Donnell, a common spelling error in records on the family; with Bird land on both sides. The land is located on the south shore of the river bank, near the present-day location of the Muttart Conservatory, the Edmonton Ski Hill and the docking place for the Edmonton Queen riverboat]


Is there anything you want to put on the record about the loss of that land?

I want to know what happened to it. Eventually I feel I will find out.


How many years have you been investigating this?

I've been doing it pretty well all my life off and on, but I got serious about it 20 years ago. In the last six years it's become easier because of computers. But a lot of the information that's in the Metisgenealogies and other sources is inaccurate. There are several sources where you can get information. It isn't always the same. A lot of the names are spelled wrong, and even the dates are wrong. Spellings of names are different because there are different nationalities giving the information, and receiving it. I guess that's why the names are spelled wrong. Something I find, too - it just makes me ill. A lot of the people who were given scrip, and run out of the river valley, were people who couldn't read or write. There was no schooling and nobody to teach it. So when people immigrated to this area who could read and write, they were the ones who were ruling. They could communicate and write, right over their heads. They were just taken advantage of, something awful.


You are descended on both sides from the first fur-trading families. What do you think they contributed to the foundation of Edmonton?

They were very kind and understanding people. They helped the people who immigrated to the area. Around where my uncles and aunts settled, [Hastings Lake] there are people there who say their grandparents and great-grandparents wouldn't have survived without them. They helped them with food supply and everything to survive. We have harsh weather and seasons. I don't think that people would have survived without that help.


Is there anything else you'd like to say about your grandmothers, or their lives?

I just know they loved their children, and they stuck with them. And their men. And I know they must have loved them a lot because that has been passed down through the ages. Even now our families are very warm and loving and they help each other. I hope that my grandkids carry that on with their own families.


I have 12 grandchildren. They all live in St. Albert and Edmonton. I have one granddaughter, my oldest one, who lives in Kelowna.


Do they know about their family history?

They do now. I've always told my kids and my grandkids they had native blood and to be proud of it. I know when my kids were little they used to have the idea they were pure native because of the way I made them know it. They used to get beat up at school because of it, but they seemed to pull through pretty good, because there was five sons and a daughter and they all helped each other. Some of them were little, and we put them in Kung Fu classes so they could stand up for themselves...


You were talking earlier about Jimmy Jock Bird...

This is still being researched. He is kind of my hero. He's a great-great uncle. When I first started doing research I went to the City Archives at Prince of Wales Armouries, and I asked if they had anything on the Birds. They kind of looked at me funny and said well, they had one article. And they said they didn't know if I'd be interested in it or not because it wasn't very complimentary. I told them I was interested. Anyway it wasn't very complimentary because he was quite a character alright... [she describes the incident related in the well-known piece about J.J. Bird selling horses to men travelling north of Fort Edmonton, they didn't tie them up, and the horses took off during the night and followed him, leaving men stranded and walking back to the fort from the prairie.]


I know that in my family, with some of them, the animals take to them and it's unreal. I had cousins that the horses would go home to like that. Or they'd be out sometimes, and they could all fall asleep in the sleigh, and the horses could take them home. And so I was thinking about that...I kind of understood Jimmy Jock, so I started looking for more information on him. And I've acquired quite a collection, along with quite a few pictures of him, drawn by different people. One article that's quite good about him is by Grant MacEwan. It kind of turned my thinking around. I admire him now. I think he was one of the most colourful people in our local history. I wish somebody would write a book about him, or make a movie about him, and make him some hero of our area. He's so colourful."


What keeps you going in your search? What are you trying to find out, more than just the names?

I didn't know anything to help me know them better. I've always felt so Canadian, through and through. I thought I had to find out about these people. And I always said that I was a product of the fur trade, so I knew the story was there somewhere and I just had to do it. [She says she is interested in Canada's early history and in particular western Canada.]