Interview with Mary Chow

We'll just start Mary, with a bit about who you and your family are.

My name is Mary Chow. I was born in Calgary; you need to be careful who you tell that to. When I got married in 1950, I came to Edmonton to live. I raised my family here; my children were all born in Edmonton. I have three daughters and one son. Now only my son lives here, not exactly in Edmonton, but in Sherwood Park. And my daughters are all out of town. So, lots of places to visit. My youngest daughter is in Calgary. I have a daughter in Vancouver and another in Petersburg.


What is your husband's name?

My husbands name is Sam. But he passed away in 1990.


Maybe you can tell me a little bit about how you and Sam met, and what brought you to Edmonton.

Well, it's an amazing thing, but the church used to play a much more important role in lives in the old days. Young people's groups, an Edmonton group came down to Calgary to visit and there is when I first met my husband. I used to come to visit once in a while. And I had a sister who took nurse's training at Lamont General Hospital. And that's why, because there was a United Church Hospital. After High School, she applied to all Calgary Hospitals, and they didn't accept her in nursing training. So she went to the Church Hospital which had a huge variety of the people that lived in Edmonton. Ukrainian girls, people from a diverse area and a lot of girls were from rural background. They accepted people as they liked to come. It was the United Church at that time.


I think the Church has really changed. Because in the old days the Church was the Sunday activity. [Now] there is so much to do on Sundays that you don't need to go to Church for companionship or to get together, [with] a friend. You can go to the mall, or go to a movie, or anything. But when I first came to Edmonton, the movies were not open; the stores were not open on Sundays. So it made a huge difference in the way people lived their lives. And I sometimes wonder what kind of a society we have right now. What are we teaching our young people? So, it's a bit of a concern for me.


Was Sam working at the time that you met?

Yeah, he had his own business. He had a grocery store downtown. It was called Daily Foods and that's what brought him to Edmonton initially in the early 30s. Some friends, I guess, [told him that] there was a group that needed a new partner in the business. So, they asked him if he wanted to come. So he came in 1932. Became a partner in their business downtown, directly across from the McCollum building. So, it was there for quiet a long time.


Did you work in the store with him?

No, I pretty well had children right after we got married and I stayed home with the kids for quite a few years. I didn't go to work until my youngest daughter was in grade seven, six or seven. By that time, the store was gone and my husband was working with one of the wholesale. The most amazing thing when my children started school, Creston School, [was that] you hardly met a parent that was born in Edmonton. Many of the people had come from other areas. A lot from the rural areas, and many from Saskatchewan. And I was amazed. And once in a while you came across somebody who was actually born in Edmonton, and that was the parent of the kids that went to school. And I thought there must not have been very many people that generation that were actually born in Edmonton. They all came to Edmonton from somewhere else. When I came, I thought: 'well, it's nice of the Government to tell them.' It has that University, which quite intrigued me. My hopes [were] that my children would go to the University of Alberta. They all did so...


Did you move right to this house? Where was the first place where you moved to?

The first house where we lived in was on 86 th street, near the stadium. And the house is still there. I sometimes go past it. It has a tree in the front yard. It was a two bedroom bungalow. Until our family outgrew the house. It was built in 1955.


Did you build this house?

Well, in this area. Which was kind of a funny thing, somebody that had worked at City Hall, insisted that you had to submit architectural plans. They had to OK the plans, and then, you were allowed to build. You had to build in six months. There was really street control for what reason? I'm not quite sure. But, I think it was because they wanted a variety. The house next door was built at about the same time, but they had siding that was horizontal. So, our new house had to have vertical siding. They had windows that were two together. We had to have the windows apart. So, there was a bit of a variety in the neighborhood. I don't know, if it still applies anywhere in the City. There have been some renovations around the river. But, in the newer areas, the homes are so close together. The City was very generous with Park Land. There are a lot of these little parks in the area. We've been really pleased with this area. And I don't know if there's a place in Edmonton that I'd rather live.


That's great. It's been a place where you've lived quiet a while and enjoyed?

We really enjoy this neighborhood. We have wonderful neighbors here, that's another thing. We've been very fortunate. It has always been very, very convenient.


Were there other houses in the area?

That house next door and the one across the park, which belonged to Sheila Barns. She was the manager of the City CA. These people are gone. I remember them quite fondly and then these houses were built within that two year period.


Lot's of changes then.

It was the same deal, you had to build and they didn't seem to sell to development projects. You had to build. Nobody was going to get a lot only. But, I don't know if those kinds of things still apply.


Did your husband tell you what brought him to Edmonton, and his family. Was it because of his business?

Yes.


Where did he come from?

He came from [? Luscha.] His dad came early. He lived in a small town called [? Rolo.] It's very close to Wilcox, Notre Dame College. His father had a restaurant there, but there wasn't any opportunity for school. And so, he went to Luscha because he had two uncles in Luscha. [He] went to school. Because Sam came as a student from China. Sam did. This is early immigrants. My father came in 1898.


Where did he come to?

From China. They nearly all came to Victoria. And Victoria had an immigration Center. And they were all held at immigration Center until they passed all the health exams. And then they were allowed to wherever their sponsoring relatives were waiting for them. So, I guess, it was a little different in those days. There weren't so many people. Although, as they say, many of the Chinese came to build the railroads. That wasn't my father's case. But Sam's father did work in the railroad. His grandfather came in early days and came in a sailing boat, if you can imagine, from China.


Do you know what year it was?

No, I don't know what year. But, that was Saskatchewan settlement. Even today, in the Moose Jaw area. So, they had a restaurant business, and I don't know if they had other business. They had a restaurant that was sold very recently, within the last five years. Sam's cousins that came from China later from immigration in the early 50's when the immigration laws relaxed. Brought their sons, I don't know if there were daughters, but the sons all came and they were in the business, and then they reached retirement age, they sold the restaurant. But this is just in the last few years. And, the modern cafandeacute; is still there, but is not the same, it's a Vietnamese restaurant.


So, it has changed entirely. Did many of the businesses remain in the family then?

No, because of the young people. It was one of the things that I always stressed. Let them go to the University. Before, they had to go to either Regina or Saskatoon. Pay the way. Because they will have an education. But, they couldn't have a job in Moose Jaw. The younger generation. The same generation as my children that are in Moose Jaw, because there is not jobs for them. Engineering or whatever.


So, it sounds like from your experience that the families that came from China have remained together as family or they spread out.

My own family spread out. Young people, once they go where the opportunities and jobs are. You don't keep them at home anymore. That's really old fashioned.


So, when you came to Edmonton. Did you come to a place that you expected?

Yes, my husband had been established for a number of years. Edmonton was not that different from Calgary. I found that Edmonton was very nice and I really liked it because the Government and the University being here. I thought these are great assets. It's nice to live here with those facilities.


Did Sam tell you any of his experiences when he first came to Edmonton?

The word from Moose Jaw was "go and live in the church.' Because, the original Church that I belong to, which is the Chinese United Church was started not too [long after he came] to Edmonton. And they had bought a house. Because of the location of the store he could talk to them.


He had a really good friend that worked with the land. This house was going out for sale. [They] raised funds and bought the house and established the church there. I wrote a little history of our church because the family was original members. It was from what he told me about it because I don't have a lot of documents. But I wrote this little history I knew about how there were four people living upstairs. They paid six dollars a month for rent, and that kept the church. That was enough to pay utilities. So, it's a story now. But, it was really good. Downtown played an important part. I think, probably in all the downtown businesses. But the young Chinese people use to go together. So, that was a part of the beginning of the church too.


Was there a fairly large Chinese community downtown?

No, there were about six original members. There were a dozen people that came to Edmonton. The first minister lived around Army and Navy and he and his family had church services in their home so that was the start. But, it wasn't a church. They raised the funds and bought that home. I don't know how much, 1000 dollars. It was played for form men living there were able to pay the utilities and be a church, pay for the taxes. That wasn't a big burden for them. But that was the beginning. Now we are in our third building. It's still in the same location.


Was it rebuilt in the same block?

Yeah. See, when we had that house and I think there was an empty lot beside it, and said: "You should raise that money and buy that lot or it'll go. And, they bought the empty lot. So, when they built the second church, it was on the second lot. And, the old house they kept. And now they had built the newest church which I think is 10, 12 years old. And, it's in this lot where the original house was. And the other has been turned down. But, it's what they call Christian Education building, like a big gym. Right next door. Attached. So, it's quiet a modern, up to date facility. But, it has all the problems of the downtown church. No families are living there, which is the biggest problem.


So, currently, most of the families are coming from outside the community into the church?

Yes. There are two families that come to our church. But, there is quite a bit of a building around the area. There are two seniors apartments right there, and the multicultural center, right in between. So, there's quite a number of seniors that come. And then, there's a lodge of seniors who need a little care, behind one of the facilities.


When the church was first established, when Sam came originally, did the community come from the area even?

Mostly they would have lived in that area. Because they had businesses. They lived upstairs, behind a lot actual residents. Most of them lived in the same building as their businesses were and those were the people that came to church. Because, as far as I know, in those old days there were only two families that had children. The rest were single, mostly men. But, that would be in the 30's. You see in the 40's, in 1949, immigration was relaxed. So that people could bring their families. There was quiet an influx of people then became the young men who came that were here for a year, went back. And then, they stayed, to establish families, and...


How would it be for a man to come here and live here on their own?

It was different. But Edmonton was a different city, safer. You could live in Edmonton. This is where YMCA played an important part in the developing of facilities for people in the downtown area. I think not just the Chinese community. Communities where they had kids, at that age where they needed some kind of a place to go for entertainment, recreation. They could always go to the Y, the church. We have a Chinese multi-cultural Center that has a gym, and a concert area, and all that kinds of things. People are building those, and the hope is that young people can come.


Sam and other people were very accepted in the community even though there weren't many families.

I think because they were business people and in my mind, Edmonton was a very trouble free area. There doesn't seem to be a lot of crime. Living was quite different, because they had this extra time. Stores weren't open. Sundays, everything was closed downtown. You had to find some place to go, and you had the time. So, there was an easier way of living. I think, today, a lot of things are driven by this need to work 24/7 almost. The young people. I don't know if they realize the pitfalls they are going [to face] when they become managers. Because managers implies many responsible positions, whatever business you're in. If you're a manager, you need to be there a lot of hours. You're not longer part of the work force that works 8 hours a day. You need to be responsible. People aren't realizing. This is something you have to be very dedicated.


The young men did pretty well off. By being able to establish a business.

The businesses didn't make a lot of money. They made a living wages. But, they couldn't amass any amount of money in today's terms. But in those days they kept their head above the water and there were people in about need, but not dairy need as you can hear today. But, expectations were different too. If they were able to make evening meal, they were happy. They didn't expect to go out two times a week.


But they managed to bring their families here.

Well, for Sam and me it was different, because I was born in Calgary. I don't have any immigration experience. So, I don't know how to speak from their point of view. I was at a seminar last year. A church thing, what they call Sounding the Bamboo. Outside Calgary. Most interesting. There were people from all different ethnic churches. And there was a program where they had a couple of ladies from the aboriginal community and they did this Sweet Grass Ceremony and it was so interesting to watch. They went to each one to take the smoke, and it was very interesting.. I spoke to the ladies afterwards. I said: 'You know what? I was born here. So, I feel I have more in common with you, than I have with any of the ladies here that came from other countries.'


You've been in Edmonton much longer than I have. More claim to community than I have. My family came from Ontario in 1970.

So you're a newcomer! Even my kids were born before 1970.


Do you know of any particular hardship for your husband coming as a newcomer into Edmonton that he had to face?

My personal experience has been very positive. I haven't had any problems. I have fixed them right away. Every experience has been a very positive experience. My kids going to school never seemed to have a problem. My son, very dedicated man who attended school and he was every week and take him to Caxe. So, he went to Caxe until he was old enough and then he went to the Scouts competitive swimmer. There was never any problem for my girls, the same. Always able to get to summer work. That way, my youngest daughter worked at CGCA, because we knew the people there. She was only 14. They said: "As long as we get the parents' consent, you can come in and out and work on Saturday.


Is she still in the business?

No. She lives in Calgary now. She's a lawyer, but she is not practicing.


What a neat experience. What would you see is Edmonton's strength? Something positive about the City?

Edmonton's strength is that it's a very accepting community. They are really good about going with the flow. There's not a lot of rejection. Even people that have some objection are not voicing very loud.


Do you have any observations of things that could be done differently, or could have happened differently. Challenge.

Well, I'm not in business anymore. So, I don't really know the in's and out's that are working. People that are working. The observations is that people is easy on the young people. I don't know. Young people have grown up to think that they have the right to do all kinds of things that they do. You know. This Charter of Rights really gets my goat. Because, they should have never said the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They should have called it the Charter of Rights and Responsibilities... because, people are not sometimes responsible for their actions. Sometimes, adults are that way, and that leads the adults to think that this is their right. They think and do it because they want to do it. Nobody can do everything that they want to do. I always say to them: "You know. Murder is something that you choose to do, actually, it's something premeditated, you want to go on, and kill somebody. You don't have the right. It's crazy; you never should talk about rights. You should talk about responsibilities. And this is what the younger generation... they are really big on rights, but not very big in responsibilities. And that is what I feel is a bit of a failing. I think, being too lenient. And I think these big fines that they are putting in effect. I don't know they are catching the people that are speeding or running red lights. When they catch them, there is a really bad accident. And that's really bad. It's not a deterred. It's somehow a responsibility of leaders in community to say whether these kinds of actions are acceptable or not.


So, has the community leaders then changed? Do you think in your mind?

I don't think the community leadership is as strong as it used to be. People are too busy making a living. I think this is really bad.


What was your experience before about the community leadership when you first arrived?

This was a very accepting community. There were only 2 or 3 houses in the field. Our next door neighbors were very nice and R Bars across the field. He knew my husband from downtown. And so it was easy, because we were here and then, people built their homes and moved in and got to know them. There used to be neighborhood parties. A lot of times, you got to know the neighborhood through your children. Because they would go to school with somebody, and said "Oh, that's the house they live in. So, then. You knew who lived in, you knew their name. And then, I can remember people: 'Oh. You're Marylyn's mother.' I said 'Somebody is talking about her. She's good in Math!' So, this is how this community got to know each other.


So, they had parties and activities?

Yes, we had an American that lived two doors over, and his name was Mr. Johnson. He raised money like Crystal Community Hall is rebuilding right now. It used to be over on 109 St. It was 60 dollars a family. Paid 60 dollars and they built the community and it was just a wonderful facility. Because, all the kids learned to skate. They didn't have to go far. I can remember talking a little in kindergarten, share over there with the kids. To hang on, when they were learning to skate and it was a really nice community. But he was the most enthusiastic community member. He even had permission to have fireworks displayed across the street for July 1 st . This was Canada Day. You lose track of these people. You remember them from when they were here, but now they are gone. They moved back to California. He was a very interesting community member. He and my husband used to go out and walk around the neighborhood; they would come back and say: "We've being inspecting the lawns". And they would stop and tell people what they thought they should do.


And they were gardeners, weren't they? That's fabulous.

They quite enjoyed their garden too. They said thay never had a garden until they moved here. Just two doors over, and he really got into his garden. And that's my understanding. When he retired they went back to California. He started a gardening business. This is what I heard. I'm not sure if it's right.


Could you give some examples of experiences being a mom in Edmonton, with young kids and what it was like for you to have children?

One of the most interesting things of teaching your kids was how to take the bus downtown to the library. In those days we had only one car. So, I didn't drive. So, if the kids wanted to go downtown to the library, they had to take the bus. We got tired of bringing all of them when only one or two wanted to go to the library, so they had to take the bus downtown. And that was really quite interesting. So, sometimes, on Sunday we would practice taking the bus and we'd drive wherever they had to go and we would meet them at the bus stop downtown. Just to make sure that they would know how to get off the bus. So, it was a really interesting time. So, when they learned how, they would take our neighbor next door. She was older, but never went downtown by herself, so they learned. And on Saturday they'd take the bus to go downtown to the library, spend the morning and then they'd come home at lunch time. It wasn't like now, when you take kids somewhere. When I take my grandchildren somewhere, we go to eat before we come home if they want to go to Burger King. But I always give them the choice. "Should we go somewhere to eat, or should we buy stuff and take it home?" So, sometimes they say: "Do what you did last time." So, we go to IGA, buy whole wheat bread and cheese, and whatever they feel like having, and that would be lunch at home, instead of going out to eat. I think kids get a lot of this fast food business. You know, their mom is working and things like that. It's the most convenient way to get something hot for the kids to eat. So, you know sometimes its fast food and a cold pop.


Do you have favorite spots that you have in Edmonton that you went with your family?

I can't remember whether it was The Bay or Eaton's. They had a lunch counter in the basement, and my kids used to like to go there. I'd say: 'let's go there and have a cold drink.' They were ordering anything that came into their mind. That was one of the spots they liked to go.


Did the Chinese community outside your church play a large role in your life? Were they part of the community downtown?

Well, most of our activities revolved around the church, but not all. Because, when more families came, there was a more social scene. A lot of families hosted evening parties. They had you over for dinner. Once or twice in a year somebody older had a birthday. Sometimes it would be in a home, but mostly it would be in a restaurant. And they had the "baby christening". Kind of a deal when new babies are one month old, they boiled hard boiled eggs and they pass them out to everybody because this is a ritual for these new born babies. But the community has grown, it's very large now. I mean, whatever gathering you went to 30 years ago, you knew just about everybody. You could pick out people you didn't know and just introduce yourself. But this days, everywhere you know there are lots of people that you don't know. That you haven't had the opportunity to meet and a lot of new businesses going on. As you know, the restaurants are changing all the time. So, it's not as stable a community as it used to be because there is much more movement and people don't have friends to start moving out of town to start something different. Before, once the neighbors settled, they wouldn't move as long as they were doing OK. They would stay. But now, they don't have funds to move away. I think this is true generally for everybody now.


How long did Sam have the grocery store downtown?

Until about 61 or 62. I think.


Thirty years almost.

Yeah, he was there for quite a long time. Kids were born by that time. Our youngest daughter was one, maybe two. She was born in 1960. His landlord was another interesting story. I'm sure you have heard about Timmy Evans.


I haven't heard about him.

I guess that was a long, long time ago. He was quite a land owner around the downtown area. He owned the barber shop. The fellow around the barber shop. Oh, I wouldn't remember George K. He was on T.V. His father-in-law ran the barbershop and then there was a fish market. His name was Tom Jones, and he ran the fish market, and there was a knit store. I can't remember what the name of the knit store was. Butcher shop, and there was a jeweler and that's the old times of Rice Street. I think it's still called Rice Street. Rice Howard Way. But the fish market was called Rice Street Fishery. Further down area, not where the market is now, but there was a City Market.


So, what was the reason to move out from the grocery business?

That's when the downtown area started to be not very profitable for the business.


What was the change? The difference?

That's when people started having Saturdays off, and having a weekend, so they were not downtown. So they were away from downtown. And so... and then all these Safeway and the big supermarkets opened up. So, the smaller stores, especially downtown, where the parking was very limited, didn't make it. There used to be a lot of men that worked downtown, that gave their orders of what they wanted.. We packed up and ready to pick up at 5 o'clock. And they didn't come downtown anymore so it was quiet and finally all those businesses closed up, and then they tore the building down. That row of buildings and... what's there now? I think there is a Canada Trust Bank or something. A Bank of Montreal, McClaud Building is still there. But it was just across the stree from MacClaud Building.


There's a couple of little restaurants in that area now.

It's still kind of a difficult place to get into. He had an offer from wholesalers. So, that was a good chance for him.


Did you enjoy being downtown?

I think he enjoyed being downtown because he enjoyed meeting so many people there. City Hall was closed and people would come to MacClaud Building. And we used to go to the store to work even on Saturday morning. Drop in and have a visit. So there was a lot of continuity. People was getting along and were friendly. So, I think he really liked that. I think that most people that had businesses downtown really miss that part of it. Because it was like a community and I think that's gone. Never could be retrieved. Because, natural, if you're going to pay the rent, you can come and there isn't a lot of that personal relationship. What is probably of that part that's destroying downtown un most cities. It's too impersonal, you know? Why should I go downtown to shop? Unless it's the only store where I can get something that I want. It's really difficult to get downtown just to shop. But I have friends who still like to go downtown on Saturday and walk around. They don't need to buy anything. And I think this is another problem. They don't need to buy anything. They take the bus, go down walk around for an hour. Stop somewhere for a cup of tea or coffee and then go back. And that's their outing, you know, it's a Saturday outing. It's a.... reminiscence of this. Come by. Really being an outing. They just say: "Let's go downtown, we'll meet in such and such place, Woolworth which was always a favorite place. And, I think there was a jewelry counter right by the door. I'll meet you right by the door. I'll meet you there, at 10:00 o'clock and then, we'll walk around. Sometimes people would stay and have lunch. And that would be a nice get together. But I think if we were... I don't know if people do that anymore, you know? Saturday, Sunday, they are crowded. Kids, there is all kinds of activities for them to do too. My grandchildren, I think thay have soccer and all those kinds of things. And Sunday, you don't know. Resting mught be coming up, doing laundry...


Yeah, catching up.

And all those kinds of things. I think it's the same.


I'm going to switch here for a second. We're going to head to another topic that's in Edmonton's heart, and I believe this is not a great big of a deal. But experiences in winter in Edmonton.

Oh. I like winter in Edmonton. I really like winter, because of the garden. You can pretty well rely that most things freeze up. They're going to be frozen. In Calgary you get all those Chinooks, which are... but you know, you don't need street dripping wet from the Chinooks in February.. We grow better roses in Edmonton than they do in Calgary because of the weather. If you're going to live here, then you learn how to manage whatever it is that you want to do. Getting out is not a problem. The bus service is, I guess, pretty good.


Now, you mentioned skating. When your community league had a skating rink here. The things that you did as a family...

Well, the kids learned to skate at the rink. But that's family. Mostly, we just took kids to wherever it was we were going. I think I mentioned my son was a competitive swimmer. The girls had their different activities. The one thing that I may regret a little bit is that we never had an opportunity to take them to what they loosely called "Chinese school".


Where is that?

We lived far. They had classes in the church and we lived to far away. We couldn't ever get them there on time.


OK. What did they do there?

Well, they mostly learned elementary Chinese. One of the brides that came from China. She's a very well educated woman, and a leader in the Church. She taught school when she came from China. She taught Chinese school at the church. We had a number of teachers there, but I never was able to get my kids there. Maybe, there is a little bit of regret.


So, there is a language instruction... that also made a cultural instruction a kind of an instruction as well?

Not really. I think the cultural instruction was really lacking. I think there is a push now to make some of that available now. Like they call it, a multicultural center. So, you know, everybody goes in, and they haven't been able to set up classes. They have a day-care there, and they're trying to raise funds for a library. So, I think that would be good. But, what you give the children mostly, you learn at home. You know, there have been always questions. So, I can of try to make sure that at different festivals. We should always observe them. Like Chinese New Year's was. I used to tell my kids: "pay your debts". And we always try to have traditional dinner with foods that you were supposed to have. Now my grandchildren that live here, their mother is a Scottish girl. When it's Chinese New Year time, we have to have sea-weed soup. The kids at school absolutely astonished everybody by saying 'yes, we had seaweed soup and the reason why we have it is that it means good luck.' Because the sea-weed that we use in the soup is called "buck choi". And, you know, buck choi means "Wish you people luck". And at first, sounds the same, that's all. It's not any significance to the food, except so you make it.


Why do you think that teaching little kids some of the traditional celebrations are important to you?

Well, one of the reasons is to give them some sense of identity of who they were and something if somebody ever asks them 'why do you do this?' that they can give an answer. And that's mostly the reason why you want to encourage this observation. But, this is the biggest thing. And, [what is] really funny... you celebrate people when they get older. You celebrate birthdays not so much for kids.


I like that.

Yeah, it's when you're 60, 70 or 80. The family throws you a birthday party. You invite all your friends and you have a birthday party. But it's not one of this, I think. I think it's kind of a cultural thing. Because you do celebrate the age. You don't celebrate the little children's age. Although you know, you have birthday parties for your kids, but it's a party that they have. But, if you see anybody's house, where there is this red eggs hanging around, that they're just souvenirs.


That's neat. That's great tradition. I like that. I wish more people could hang on to that.

Well, there is a little story about birthday party celebration of older [people]. If there is still a couple in their 60's or 80's, or whatever year they celebrate it on an even date, like if it's their 60 th birthday, and there is still two of them, or 70 th , and there's still two of them, they will have their birthday celebration on an even date. If there is only one, if there is a grandma who has reached 79 or 89. They will have a birthday party on the 9 th . Not on the even. Because there's no longer two of them. They will have it on the even. But, that's something that I've learned quite recently. That something a lot of people don't know. Because I just inadvertently asked them: "Why some people have their birthday on the 9 th , and some people have them on the even. So, that's when I learned that. You have to keep on asking these questions. You never quit hearing about this.


Do you fee very connected to the Chinese community?

I am, yes. I go to the church. It has tai-chi classes. I go to that and, of course we meet every Sunday. They have different groups. They have the bazaar in June. I take part in all those things. You keep connected. A lot of people that come to Tai-Chi are not members of our church. They come from all different churches. And all different areas. But, there are a lot of Tai-chi classes. But it doesn't make any difference to me if they belong to our church or alliance, or whatever thirteen Chinese qualifications in it. There is the Alliance Church. It's a big church. And there must be a couple of others downtown. There is the south side Alliance Church and I think there is one in the north. They are not connected like we are in the United Church. They have a little more freedom of movement. Well, not that you don't. But they have anybody can start with the Church. Many people who have a little difference of opinion can go and start their own church.


The United Church has more hierarchy as far as elders.

Lot more.


Well, that's about an hour

I didn't keep my mouth shut.


Yeah, you did well. That was great. Is there anything else that you feel is important?

Well, I think that it would be important to say that from older peoples' point of view that we should be aware of what direction our society is going. Stress responsibility as much as [we] stress, freedom, and make the kids clean up the room. You know, it's too bad they didn't call all those kids in Whyte Avenue. And made them clean up after.


Yeah.

This is what my hope for the future is. Why the kids go so wild in these days?


Were you ever wild when you were young?

Not that kind of wild. We thought we were wild sometimes. When we got in some bodies car and we drove our dream


It's definitely a different upbringing .

Even my children were not as wild as the kids these days. I don't know if they were inhibited in any way. I don't think so.


Families I think make a difference as far as where people end up.

What we don't know is, when you're teaching your children, are you inhibiting them from expressing themselves? You really don't know until they're able to express and then you see your own faults coming back. You get a little worried.


I think this is totally universal and it sounds from your experience that you had a lot of it. It hasn't been just you and your husband and children, it's been a lot of community. You've had church community. It has had an influence in all your family.

Yeah, the school was a big influence to us. Because, you know, when my kids were going to school PTA was a big deal (Parents and Teachers Association). We used to meet quite regularly and one year I was secretary. So... but it was a good time, because parents knew what was going on. A connection to the community comes about that way. As much as you take part in the community, you get back from the community. But, you don't participate. You have to be a sort of an active member. But, you know, when I turned 75 last year. I figured out; just do what I want to do. Not take on any responsibility. Because sometimes you take those jobs on, you got them for life. But, I'm just going to do what I've been doing. And, not take any new responsibility. Because I really don't have time. Because 3, 4 mornings a week I'm really busy. Because, on Tuesdays I'm going to that Johnson walking group at Wild Rose Ramble.


That is fabulous.

Last week I didn't even know there was a Jacky Lake in Mill Wood's. Right by the golf court and we walked out there at the ravine the Mill Creek Ravine. And it was amazing; I had never been out there. Mill Wood's is an easy place to get lost, so we walked in the ravine and then, we came back. It was a windy morning. So, we walked in the trees, and the lake was nice. So, it's a very interesting group to work with. They have a good schedule, go to interesting places. We went to Tofield a few weeks ago, [but] we didn't see any snow geese. The festival was over, but usually there are geese around. But I think I heard the gardener on Sunday mornings say they had an absolutely wonderful display from the snow geese. They've been around for two weeks. But I think he lives in


[? Cheap Mill] on Thompson on the river, and so, that's where they were. A lot of people go to Camrose to see them. But we have only been to Tofield. They have a tape that's most interesting about birds. It lasts 20 minutes. It was really nice to see all the birds. They come and then they go. And it's a big thing that they come in the spring and they leave to the Artic and they come back and it's not a big thing when they are returning. At least, not here. Maybe, is where they go for the winter. But it's quite interesting to watch. Last year we went to this place where the snakes come out. This place was in Manitoba, it was in the news where they were building this place where people can go and see the snakes west of the city here. It's called the hibernacula. It's a little mount, not even a hill. It's where all the snakes spend the winter, hibernate, and when their little baby snakes are born, they come out. But they just have this little plastic, orange around this area; it is for the snake's safety. They were only about this long, and they were hundreds and hundreds of them, crawling, and they say they try to keep warm. But, I was definitely scared of snakes or worms or anything like that. They are as much scared of you as you are of them. So there was this gal who didn't mind picking them up... it kind of gave the creeps, but it was a very interesting thing.


There are all sorts of interesting things to do out there.

We walk the river valley quite a bit. New stuff is going on. The first walk, it was covered with snow. They were only 7 or 8 ladies. But they borrowed snow shoes downtown at the senior center.


What a great thing

And then, we were going out to some lake...and then we were going out to an island or lake, I'm not sure. I don't remember what Island or lake it is. I think I've been there before. And then, we go out to walk once a year. But, you know, just for a short period of time. April to June. And then, we go from September to the end of November. It was mild and interesting. We did a really neat walk last week [when] we walked from the museum and we went to 124 street and then, walked to, those benches and statue, Victoria Common 160 almost to LeMarchant. Then, we stopped. And there was one gal who knew quite a bit about the history. It's an interesting walk. My friend and I have done it because I wanted to read all the plaques and things they have to say about the statue. But I think most of the statues of people that lived in that area before their families have done that. And anybody can set a bench and a plaque. It's an interesting walk and right within the City.


There's also hidden places, and the river valley to discover.